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Fri. Mar 5th, 2021
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I’m about to interview certainly one of my favourite SEOs on the planet, Julie Adams.

I first realized about Julie’s story in The Affiliate Lab, the place she shared her expertise of quitting the digital advertising and marketing company that she labored at and switching over to affiliate search engine marketing.

Now, she’s making more cash in a single month than she did in a complete 12 months on the company!

Stick round for this interview as a result of we’re going to get into not solely her story however her complete course of on how she ranks web sites — from backlinks to on-site search engine marketing.

Principally, the whole lot she does to get her affiliate portfolio ranked at this time.

Transitioning from Consumer to Affiliate search engine marketing

Matt: Hello Julie. Earlier than we get began, why don’t you give everybody a little bit heads up on who you might be and what you do on this world of search engine marketing?

Julie: Certain, thanks for having me, Matt.

I’ve been in search engine marketing for about seven or eight years.

I began on the backside, not figuring out a lot, and labored in an company.

I started working with content material and rapidly fell in love with the whole lot that goes into search engine marketing — together with the technical facets, then seeing outcomes and creating wealth.

So, I labored on the company in the course of the day, then I might go house and do affiliate search engine marketing at evening.

So I simply sort of stumbled my means into search engine marketing, and I’ve had fairly good success.

Matt: Superior, we’re very excited to listen to extra about your search engine marketing story — however why don’t we begin in the beginning.

First off, how outdated are you? The place are you from? The place are you residing? What’s the total story there?

Julie: I’m 27, out of Orlando, Florida.

I’ve been right here my complete life. I adore it.

I’m massive into the outside and all that — after I’m not doing the techie stuff.

Matt: Born and raised within the South?

Julie: I grew up within the Sarasota/Venice space, so all the time across the seashore.

I moved right here after I was in fourth or fifth grade, so I used to be massive into Disney, massive into the whole lot that Floridians are into — all that good things!

Matt: Superior! And how much training do you may have? Did you go to highschool, faculty?

Julie: I’m a school dropout.

I used to be truly a enterprise finance main. I went to Valencia Neighborhood Faculty, bought my affiliate’s diploma in enterprise administration, and began my bachelor’s diploma.

Then I nearly failed one class — and I’m the kind of individual that will get actually demotivated if I don’t completely excel at one thing.

A chance got here as much as work at an SEO agency simply as I used to be about to fail out of that class. I made a decision to simply drop out of faculty and pursue digital advertising and marketing full time.

So my bachelor’s diploma remains to be on maintain!

Matt: Fascinating, I’ve an identical character kind.

If I can’t be actually good at one thing, there’s no level in it for me — I’ve give up 1,000,000 issues due to that, so I get that…

How did you get into search engine marketing? How did the entire thing begin?

Julie: I truthfully stumbled into it.

Once I began the company job, I used to be working at a movie show, so I used to be principally scooping popcorn.

That was my first job. I additionally did some babysitting on the facet, which is definitely how I met my boss on the company.

He acknowledged that I used to be fairly good, wanted a possibility and simply sort of scooped me up like popcorn!

I began working on the company with out even figuring out what the time period search engine marketing stood for.

It was a complete thriller to me. I assumed it was simply these three letters.

I began as an 18 or 19-year outdated going into this workplace setting, and my boss principally simply mentioned, “You’re answerable for content material. You’re answerable for hyperlinks.”

Initially, I used to be like, “Nice, what does that imply?”

After which I simply sort of realized on the job from there, in all honesty.

I didn’t get any formal coaching or something like that.

Matt: Fascinating, so did they only offer you in-house coaching? Was it largely based mostly on their SOPs and inside information?

Or did you are taking any programs or be taught search engine marketing from some other supply?

Julie: This was when search engine marketing simply stopped being sketchy.

Folks had been utilizing spun content material and SAPE links and ways like that.

That was my preliminary thought of what search engine marketing meant. So, after I first began, I used to be managing spun content material, modifying it, writing some content material myself and managing hyperlink orders.

Once I bought there, we had no customary working procedures — it was simply, “Do X, Y, and Z, and don’t lose a consumer!”

standard operating procedures

Matt: Is smart… I imply, that’s the essential plan!

Let’s discuss a little bit bit extra concerning the company.

First off, I’m curious to know why you determined to depart it?

Julie: Time and cash.

I’m fiercely impartial. I like search engine marketing. I stumbled into one thing that I actually take pleasure in.

I felt actually fortunate due to all that, however I used to be working 40 some odd hours per week.

And as you may in all probability inform by how I’m describing this company, it’s small.

I used to be certainly one of three core workers on the time, and I principally hit the ceiling.

There was no room to develop, there was no alternative to make more cash, there was no actually no room to be taught anything — Every single day you go in, you do your work, and also you go house…

Then I found affiliate search engine marketing, in all probability how all people else discovers it. I used to be simply hoping to make a little bit passive earnings.

I used to be good at search engine marketing, and I needed the free time and the cash!

Matt: I get that 100%. And you’ll throw this query proper again at me should you don’t really feel snug with it, however what was your month-to-month or annual wage at that company?

Julie: I don’t keep in mind what I began at.

It was undoubtedly round minimal wage as a result of I had no expertise — so it was in all probability eight or 9 bucks an hour, no matter minimal wage was on the time.

And I maxed out at about $40okay a 12 months.

Matt: And what number of shoppers did you handle for $40okay a 12 months?

Julie:  Essentially the most that I managed at one time was someplace round 70 or 80.

I personally labored with lots of of accounts after I labored there, however on the peak, I used to be managing upwards of 80 accounts directly.

Matt: That’s insane!

I imply, that’s an superior ROI for the company, however how about your stress ranges? How had been you in a position to deal with 80 shoppers at a time?

Julie: It was actually tense!

I wasn’t all the time trustworthy about what I may deal with, so I might simply do no matter I may.

I used to be principally the brains of the operation. I had folks to put in writing content material. I had folks that might assist me put all of the items into place.

So, you may sort of consider me as extra of a conductor…

I constructed out the plans, after which someone else would implement them. That’s the one means it was doable…

However it was undoubtedly tense to be anticipated to reply questions for 80 completely different accounts.

Like, “Why aren’t they rating?”

You’ll be able to’t pull up a report in a gathering. You had been anticipated to know the solutions off the highest of your head.

So, that was in all probability essentially the most tense half.

Matt: Wow, that’s what they name a trial by fireplace!

Julie: I’m grateful for that, although, as a result of the variety of web sites I handle now could be simply chump change compared.

Matt: That brings me to my subsequent query. I’m certain you realized fairly just a few expertise on the job that carried over to your affiliate profession.

Are you able to contact upon that a little bit bit?

Julie: I imply, search engine marketing, for certain. I had 80 shoppers to play with.

To start with, it wasn’t that many, however I did have shoppers to play with, and it wasn’t like they had been my shoppers. If I misplaced them, truthfully, I nonetheless had a job.

So in that sense, I had room to experiment —it was that sort of surroundings.

Matt: Obtained it.

Once you had been contemplating making the bounce from company to affiliate search engine marketing, what fears or thought processes had been happening in your thoughts?

Julie: All the pieces that you can imagine!

I’ve generalized anxiousness — I overthink the whole lot. And leaping ship from a cushty place in an business that I like was actually scary.

Now, I all the time knew that I might have a job there as a result of, as I mentioned, it was a small firm. I truly needed to give them six months discover to depart!

So I wasn’t fearful that I wouldn’t be capable to return to the company…

I used to be simply afraid that I’d have to return with my tail between my legs — having to confess that I attempted one thing and failed.

Matt: I used to be enthusiastic about that lately too…

That’s what held my journey as an entrepreneur again an additional 12 months or two.

And it’s such an irrational worry!

What would occur should you truly had to return to your job. In your first again, do you assume your colleagues would say, “Oh, take a look at her — right here she is. Oh, my God. She didn’t make it as a profitable entrepreneur.”

After all not, proper?

So folks listening, take word —  worry of failure is a robust worry.  It in all probability comes from our lizard brains or some sort of prehistoric social conditioning, nevertheless it’s an irrational worry.

Nobody goes to care in any respect should you didn’t reach your try to strike off by yourself.

Julie: It’s a worry that everybody has — and it’s one thing that may provide help to develop too.

Though I’m uncomfortable with the concept of failing, I strive to be uncomfortable in life if that is sensible.

If I’m in my consolation zone, I’m not rising.

So that you simply sort of need to take the leap, much like what you probably did.

client and affiliate seo

Matt: I get that 100%.

So, what was it just like the day that you just turned in your discover, and also you mentioned six months and I’m out?

Julie: So I’d sort of been engaged on it low key. My boss knew what I used to be doing. He knew that I used to be about to promote a web site, he knew how a lot I used to be going to promote it for, however I don’t assume he put all these items collectively.

I bought my first web site for roughly $30okay… A reasonably good quantity for someone of their early 20s and undoubtedly sufficient to maintain me for at the very least a few months to see if I’m going to be good or not.

The day that I give up was the day that I came upon that the location bought.

I came upon whereas I used to be at work, I bought an electronic mail, after which I instantly bumped into his workplace —  after having my anxiousness assault — and mentioned, “I’m quitting. I did this, I need to do that. I can do that. That is proof of idea. search engine marketing isn’t some get-rich-quick scheme that you just see on the web. This cash goes to be in my account. I’m quitting. How a lot discover do you want?”

And he was shocked! He didn’t assume that I’d truly ever do it, however we ultimately settled on six months. So I stayed for one more six months.

Matt: That’s nice, and good on you for giving them a six months discover! That’s about 12x what folks normally do, in order that’s superb.

Do you genuinely haven’t any shoppers now? Are you absolutely affiliate, or do you continue to preserve some shoppers?

Julie: I might say 99.99% affiliate. I’ve one account that pays me below $300 a month, and it’s sort of a favor for a pal.

I actually simply handle their content material and perform a little little bit of their on-page, nevertheless it’s certainly not substantial.

So it’s a 100% affiliate at this level.

Matt: I heard you say that the set off level for you handing in your discover is once you flipped your first website.

So, it sounds such as you had been doing a little bit moonlighting — working on the company in the course of the day, engaged on affiliate at evening.

What sort of setup did you may have happening that made you’re feeling snug? Did you may have one affiliate website working within the background? A pair? What did that appear to be?

Julie: I had one website that I used to be gearing as much as promote, however over the course of a 12 months or two, I began constructing a brand new web site each quarter.

I needed to get them out of the sandbox in order that by the point I give up, I had not simply the $30okay from promoting my first website, I additionally had further earnings and that residual earnings changed what I used to be making on the company.

So I had this good chunk of change from promoting the location plus ongoing earnings, and I wanted that to really feel snug.

Matt: Yeah, I get it. I’d say it’s a conservative technique to do it, however that’s precisely how I believe too.

Some folks would possibly’ve simply mentioned, I would like the thirty grand, and let’s get going, however you had the $30okay and the wage alternative —  it’s a no-lose state of affairs.

Julie: And Florida, the price of residing right here, it’s tough — particularly in Orlando. Jobs don’t pay as a lot as they need to, and lease’s actually, actually excessive.

If I didn’t have the recurring earnings, I couldn’t stay off of $30,000 for very lengthy — at the very least in Orlando — and nonetheless be capable to spend money on my websites.

So I actually didn’t have an choice.

Area of interest Choice

Niche Selection

Matt: That’s an fascinating truth. So, together with your small portfolio of web sites that you just had been engaged on once you’re on the company, what sort of niches had been you entering into?

You don’t need to drill down precisely into micro-niche, however typically.

Julie: On the time, I used to be principally doing 100% Amazon websites. So, the primary website that I began, I don’t truly think about my first web site as a result of it was an absolute flop. It didn’t do something.

I let the area title expire in the long run, nevertheless it was a private factor that I appreciated: bikes. So it was a distinct segment website based mostly round bikes.

I used to trip — nevertheless it seems it’s a horrible area of interest for affiliate!

That was my first web site. Then the location that I bought for $30okay was within the out of doors area of interest. Once I was doing largely Amazon, it was a whole lot of sports activities, outdoor, house enchancment —stuff like that.

Principally, niches the place the merchandise had been costly on Amazon is the place I used to be at on the time.

Matt: Did you ever construct on any expired domains, or had been you all the time constructing on model new domains?

Julie: The primary two websites had been constructed earlier than I even knew that expired domains had been a professional technique to do something, so it was all simply contemporary stuff.

Key phrase Analysis

Keyword Research process

Matt: How do you do your key phrase analysis?

Julie: On the time or now?

Matt: Let’s discuss now, let’s be extra related.

Julie: Now, as a substitute of beginning with a key phrase, I begin with a competitor.

If I discover a area of interest that I believe goes to be worthwhile, I don’t simply throw no matter I really feel is likely to be a good suggestion into Ahrefs. If I’m not an professional within the area of interest, I’m not going to have all the nice concepts anyway.

So, now I begin with discovering a competitor that’s rating and an identical measurement web site to mine. Not a website that’s tremendous micro area of interest but additionally not a web site that’s tremendous high-authority.

Then I’ll throw that website into Ahrefs and see what pages are producing essentially the most site visitors, after which cross-reference that with how costly the objects are, how seemingly they’re to promote on-line, stuff like that.

After which it’s simply Ahref rabbit holes and Excel sheets from there!

Matt: I do know the Ahrefs rabbit holes! “Only one extra hour. I simply need to end up this spreadsheet…”

Julie: “Wait, this exists? What is that this? Now I’ve 500 extra key phrases!”

Matt: Precisely!

You hinted about area of interest versus authority websites. Let’s discuss that…

Don’t let me put phrases in your mouth, nevertheless it sounds such as you had been constructing area of interest websites at first — bikes, outdoor and stuff like that.

So had been you area of interest earlier than and authority now, or are you continue to preserving it area of interest?

Julie: I prefer to have my domains such that they’ve room to develop, however they’re nonetheless thought of area of interest websites.

If I had been to make use of a motorbike website for example, it wouldn’t be It’d simply be or one thing like that, in order that I’ve room to broaden inside the area of interest.

However on the finish of the day, yeah, it’s nonetheless area of interest websites.

Onsite Optimization and Content material

Matt: Let’s shift from constructing web sites and niches and get into onsite search engine marketing.

How do you go about creating content material?

Are you outsourcing it?

Are you writing it your self?

Julie: At this level, I outsource all of it as a result of I  simply don’t have time to bust out the quantity of content material you want now.

Once I first began, I wrote all of it myself simply to economize as a result of good content material is dear. However now, I’m on the level the place I can outsource it, which is great.

Matt: Cool, the place are you getting your writers from, should you don’t thoughts sharing?

Julie: I’ve been working with one author for a very long time. As I mentioned, I’ve a small portfolio of web sites now, so I don’t have sufficient to max her out, however I discovered her based mostly on a suggestion in a Fb group or one thing like that.

Matt: How about different kinds of assist? Do you may have VAs? Do you may have content material editors? Let’s simply do a quick overview of your staff and the way you construction that.

Julie: Yeah, it’s small. It’s me and one and a half content material writers. I’ve one woman I exploit for simpler weblog subjects, as she’s a little bit bit inexpensive.

Then I’ve a VA that does hyperlink constructing outreach and one other VA that handles principally all of the piddly work wanted on a web site.

He publishes content material. If there’s something technically mistaken with the location, he can repair it. He can do site-speed optimization, he can do some primary on-page search engine marketing. And if, for instance, I do an A/B check and discover {that a} button must be a distinct coloration, he’ll deal with the modifications throughout the board.

Matt: Fascinating. One of the frequent questions I get requested is how one can rent successfully and the place to seek out good folks. ..

Are you able to give any sort of recommendation on the place yow will discover common VA kind positions, the place yow will discover writers and other people like that?

Julie: The very best piece of recommendation I can provide is don’t be afraid to fireplace someone simply because it took some time to seek out somebody. You’re going to rent good freelancers and unhealthy ones.

Rent fast, fireplace fast — till you discover the fitting match.

Matt: Would you say most of your hires are coming from Upwork or different sources?

Julie: Upwork after which private suggestions for content material writers…

Matt: Obtained it. OK, let’s get again to the content material. How lengthy do you make your articles, and the way do you establish that?

Julie: It is dependent upon the competitors. More often than not, it’s round 2,000 phrases.

I’ve been utilizing Surfer quite a bit recently, so actually what was once a guide course of Surfer makes very easy. I exploit a whole lot of Surfer’s suggestions and sort of take it from there.

Matt: Cool, I agree. Surfer simply makes issues quite a bit simpler and scalable.

Talking of Surfer, what’re your ideas on key phrase density?

Fantasy? Actual? Do you take note of it?

Julie: I believe it’s helpful when it comes to NLP stuff, key phrase stuffing — it is dependent upon the SERP, actually.

If it’s working in a specific area of interest, do it. Usually talking, I believe it’s principally lifeless, however each SERP is completely different. So that you sort of have to enter the SERP and see. However I might say, for essentially the most half, it’s finished.

Matt: So, key phrase density is lifeless within the sense that you just wouldn’t stuff key phrases only for the sake of rating. However utilizing some sort of algorithm or an API like Google’s NLP can probably provide help to make higher selections together with your content material?

Julie: Completely, however even that’s based mostly on the competitors. So, if for no matter cause, I’m in a distinct segment that’s tremendous spammy and my rivals are key phrase stuffing, key phrase stuffing goes to work.

You’ll want to consider on a case-by-case or niche-by-niche foundation…

However I don’t assume there’s some magic method that works throughout the board relating to key phrase density.

Onsite Optimization and Content

Matt: I’ve by no means advised this story earlier than as a result of it was a web site that I labored on.

However what? It’s been a very long time, and people key phrases are lengthy gone. However I used to have a web site rating primary for “how one can brew beer.”

So, “how one can brew beer,” all good, we’re primary for that.

However, for the time period “how one can make beer,” we’re on web page 5.

Methods to brew beer, how one can make beer. Identical precise search intent.

You’ll be able to’t make beer with out brewing it. You’ll be able to’t brew beer with out making it…

Then we tossed our content material right into a true density algorithm — which analyzes entities on the web page and assesses how continuously you employ sure phrases in comparison with the competitors — it turned out we’d used the phrase “make” on the web page 60-something occasions…

In distinction, the competitor’s common was about 12.

So we toned the frequency down and shot up from web page 5 to quantity two.

And, I used to be like, “You recognize what? I don’t care what folks say on Twitter. This density stuff, it’s actual. I simply noticed it work proper in entrance of my eyes.”

Julie: Simply to piggyback off that, key phrase density is actual when associated to the rivals which might be rating. You’re not simply blatantly key phrase stuffing content material only for the sake of stuffing it.

You’re stuffing it based mostly on what’s working — or unstuffing it in your case.

Matt: That’s precisely proper!

How typically do you publish new content material, and does that change based mostly on the kind of web site?

Like, for a longtime web site, do you publish sooner or slower?

Julie: For newer websites, I truly publish sooner simply to get the final relevance constructed up.

For websites below a 12 months outdated, I’ll do perhaps 10 or 15 articles a month. After which, as soon as it will get to a sure level — usually round 40 posts relying on the area of interest — I’ll step by step decelerate to about one article per week.

That may be consumers guides, that may be supporting content material — simply preserving issues contemporary.

Matt: Very good, very good.

Let’s discuss interlinking — a blazing sizzling matter this 12 months.

Internally linking varied pages in your websites, what sort of course of do you employ for that?

Julie: I was tremendous, tremendous strict with it. I’ve gotten a little bit bit looser as I’ve fine-tuned my expertise. I like to consider it as topic clusters. In order that’s additionally the best way that I key phrase plan.

As an alternative of simply considering of 1, two, three completely different random key phrases, I’ll take one matter thought, key phrase analysis that group altogether, after which interlink all of them to one another.

Now, the one means that I might go exterior of that’s if there’s a matter in one other cluster that naturally relates again.

So it’s sort of a mixture of typical technical search engine marketing silo interlinking with a little bit little bit of what “simply is sensible” combined in.

technical SEO interlinking

Matt: Talking of silos, do you ever comply with any of the “conventional” silo constructions? For instance, the top-down silo, the reverse silo, or comparable extremely structured and deliberate out configurations?

Julie: I used to make use of silos like that after I did native search engine marketing — when it was extra about providers.

However now that I’m absolutely affiliate, I discover that at the very least in my case, it issues considerably much less.

I normally don’t attempt to rank for tremendous high-competition key phrases — one thing I’d think about a high tier key phrase. I’m usually after tier two key phrases, one thing that’s a little bit bit much less aggressive.

So, so as to construct out the URL construction and all that, I might principally be making a web page that I used to be going to do nothing with — that I’ve no intention of rating.

I principally simply interlink pages with out doing any elaborate URL structuring, for essentially the most half.

Matt: Do you do any featured snippet optimization?

Julie: I do! However as of lately — and I’m assuming you’ve observed this as effectively — featured snippets roughly dropped off the face of the earth.

So it was once one thing that I might give attention to. I might go do featured snippet optimization like twice a month for all my websites.

I’ve sort of backed off on that, just because I can’t discover snippets for lots of key phrases anymore.

Matt: Let’s faux we lived in a world that had consistency within the SERPs…

How would you optimize for featured snippets?

Julie: So, on this faux world, the place Google does what we wish them to do?

I might Google a key phrase and see, to begin with, who has the snippet and what kind of snippet it’s…

If it’s an inventory snippet that provides me a sign of what Google is in search of. If it’s a paragraph snippet, that provides me one other clue.

Initially, I’ll see how they bought the snippet — take a look at what info Google is definitely pulling — after which I’ll see the place I’m within the checklist of issues.

You’ll be able to exclude competitor’s websites from the SERPs, then you will get a way of the place you fall in line for the snippet.

As soon as I’ve an thought what the competitors is doing, I’ll do some tweaks on my website and re-index it…

If it indexes rapidly, that’s great — I’ll test to see, have I moved up? Have I moved down?

Now, if I’ve moved up, I might preserve the change. Or if I stayed in the identical spot, I’d preserve the change.

If I moved down, I’d revert the modifications and take a look at one thing else till it really works.

It’s actually all about persistence. In case you strive exhausting sufficient, 9 occasions out of 10, you’ll seize the snippet, so long as you’re within the high three.

Matt: The large trial and error course of. The advantage of featured snippet optimization — and I’m certain you discovered this as effectively — is that the suggestions loop is admittedly fast.

You re-index it, re-crawl in GSC, and you must see whether or not your change scored you the snippet.

Julie: Precisely. I’ve discovered Search Console typically indexes immediately, and typically it doesn’t. So should you’re Google’s good books and get listed instantly — completely, you may know immediately.

Matt: Every other on-site search engine marketing ideas that you just felt bought good features on your web sites that we haven’t touched upon?

Julie: The most important factor I uncover after I audit websites proper now could be how few folks optimize essentially the most invaluable search engine marketing actual property on a web site: your URL, your title tag, and your H1.

So many individuals have equivalent Title and H1 tags, which leaves a ton of potential long-tail key phrases on the desk.

In case you’re solely optimizing for one key phrase, you’re lacking out on 20 various things…

Take a pair minutes, go into Ahrefs, see what variations of the key phrase there are, and blend up your title and your H1 simply so as to goal extra key phrases.

Matt: Sure, I agree 100%!

As , in The Affiliate Lab, we name this The Three Kings,

It’s so essential that we needed to gown it up with a foolish title simply so that it’s important.

Let’s rapidly pivot into offsite search engine marketing…

Hyperlink Constructing and Offsite search engine marketing

What sort of hyperlinks would you construct to a brand new web site?

Julie: I primarily begin with primary social accounts. I’m speaking Pinterest, Fb, Twitter —  stuff like that.

Not essentially for the sake of getting a backlink, however simply to assert that entity and to have the ability to hyperlink to it from the web site, so it appears a little bit bit extra actual. But when the social profiles index, nice.

Matt: And what comes after these social profiles?

Julie: Properly, first, I might anticipate the location to get out of the sandbox. I’m not going to hyperlink to one thing that’s not getting any site visitors.

As soon as I begin seeing site visitors are available, even when it’s only a weblog or one thing that doesn’t have purchaser intent, I’ll begin constructing visitor publish hyperlinks to no matter’s rating, simply in order that it appears essentially the most pure. And if it does occur to be a weblog that’s not one thing that I’m attempting to monetize, I’ll use inside hyperlinks to sort of funnel the hyperlink juice.

Then as the location grows, I begin constructing hyperlinks to pages which have pure traction. After which the extra the location grows, the extra authority you may have, the extra that sort of branches out.

Matt: So, you talked about visitor posts. Do you employ some other sort of kind of backlinks aside from visitor posts?

Julie: I used to make use of area of interest edits earlier than I came upon that they had been hacked websites.

That was a few years in the past, however I nonetheless pursue true area of interest edits.

As soon as a website is getting a little bit little bit of site visitors, I’ll inform my VA you may go after guest posts or if you wish to insert a hyperlink into an present article, go for it.

However I don’t try this immediately simply because it’s not likely pure.

After which I’m experimenting proper now with Tier 2 PBN hyperlinks. I hear they’re getting good outcomes.

Matt: So that you’re doing visitor posts and hyperlink insertions, we’ll name it a hyperlink insertion as a substitute of area of interest edits to distinguish from the hacked model.

However are you doing outreach for all these items, or are you buying any of them from distributors?

Julie: Outreach and buy. Principally, I buy the hyperlinks I supply by way of outreach.

Link Building and Offsite SEO

Matt: Are you able to give folks some perception on how one can get began with outreach? Like an instance template you employ as the primary contact once you’re reaching out to somebody to say, “Hey, I’m considering getting a hyperlink in your weblog.”

Julie: I’ve some type of fascinating topic traces, one thing that isn’t simply the run of the mill, “Whats up, form sir, let me construct a hyperlink.” I attempt to seize their consideration.

If I’m doing it myself and it’s a goal I actually care about, I’ll embody one thing customized within the topic line in order that they comprehend it’s not spammy.

To be trustworthy, I personally haven’t finished outreach in a very long time. My VA simply sort of handles it.

I didn’t even particularly practice him as a result of I didn’t have an outreach SOP constructed out that I used to be assured in. I employed a VA who had taken sure search engine marketing programs and gave them the chance to show themselves.

Matt: That’s an superior reply! That’s what I need to hear high-level operators saying: “You recognize what? To be trustworthy, I don’t even know what my outreach individual is writing lately, as a result of I employed somebody who’s doing it higher than I may — and I’ve given them 100% possession of the duty.”

Have you learnt what instruments you’re utilizing for outreach?

Julie: Once I was doing it myself, I might use BuzzStream simply to automate the precise sending of the emails, after which I might do a whole lot of scraping, utilizing Ahrefs and Google, simply primary stuff like that.

Good outdated Excel spreadsheets too, however BuzzStream was the most important instrument I used.

Matt: What number of hyperlinks do you prefer to construct per 30 days, per website?

Julie: It is dependent upon how massive the location is. When I’ve a contemporary website, round 5 to 10, after which because it grows, I stand up to 20, 25. That’s the max that I ship to a website proper now.

So it sort of stays inside that window, relying on how a lot site visitors is getting, how aged the location is, and competitor’s hyperlink velocity.

Matt: You all the time have to know that you just’re outpacing your competitors, or you may by no means count on to beat them.

So what are you doing for anchor texts?

Julie: Once more, it’s based mostly on competitors…

I believe it would truly be your technique that I’m utilizing — I’ve been utilizing it for thus lengthy now!

You are taking the websites on the primary web page of Google, take a look at their anchor textual content, calculate a mean, and use that to tell what it’s worthwhile to do. And, as I discussed earlier than with key phrase density, it modifications per the SERP.

Again within the day, I might assume, hey, you want 50% key phrase anchors, 50% URLs, or regardless of the heck it was.

Completely throw all that out the window! It varies for each single search time period. You need to base it off the competitors, and then you definately simply take the common.

Matt: Amen, sister, amen!

What about social alerts — use them, or don’t care?

Julie: Don’t care!

Matt: That falls within the “don’t care” bucket.

Do you retain monitor of no-follow versus do-follow ratios?

Julie: No, perhaps I ought to, however I don’t.

I’ve discovered that they sort of seem naturally as the location grows.

I entice the hyperlinks that I construct for no matter cause, whether or not it’s syndication websites or no matter.

I have a tendency to select up no-follow hyperlinks simply by present, so it’s not one thing that I actually put a whole lot of effort into.

Matt: How about let’s end up with some other off-site search engine marketing ideas that you may suggest or some other hyperlink constructing information bombs that you just need to drop?

Julie: Not a information bomb however a actuality test — hyperlinks value cash. In case you’re on a good funds, you’re going to need to construct hyperlinks your self…

However even should you’re doing it your self, count on to pay anyplace from $30 to $60 plus for each single hyperlink. Site owners are on to the truth that charging for hyperlinks is an effective technique to earn money, and there’s no means round it.

If someone gives you a $20 hyperlink on a web site, there’s in all probability a cause why it’s $20, and also you don’t need that. So simply be able to spend cash — it’s a must to at this level.

Monetization (and Methods to Get off Amazon!)

Matt: Good segue — cash. Let’s discuss monetization. How do you prefer to monetize your affiliate sites?

Julie: Simply good outdated affiliate hyperlinks. I performed round with adverts means again when… I don’t do it now. My thought course of is, if I can get a click on on an advert that will get me a penny and a half, I’m probably dropping an affiliate click on that might get me a few hundred {dollars}.

Perhaps I’m simply being too cautious, however the danger of dropping that potential affiliate click on prevents me from being enticed by how a lot I could make with adverts.

Matt: Certain, certain. And with these affiliate hyperlinks, the place are you sending them?

Julie: I used to do a whole lot of Amazon, in all probability about 80-90%. When was it? March or April when Amazon did their massive lower?

I used to be about 90% Amazon at the moment, and now I’m at about 25%. Now I ship most of my site visitors to producers that bid the best and have essentially the most related merchandise.

Matt: Good on you. You’ve caught my eye in The Affiliate Lab many occasions for sharing information bombs, whether or not you assume so or not. One factor I’ve observed is that you’ve got a knack for changing Amazon as a vendor and dealing with manufacturers and producers instantly. Are you able to converse a little bit bit extra about that?

Julie: Whether or not you’re an affiliate otherwise you’re in native search engine marketing, it’s an business the place folks like to cover. You’re going to face out should you’re keen to be personable and keen to speak to folks.

Right here’s how I land the preferential offers that I’m in a position to get…

Initially, I’ll apply for an affiliate program. I’ll ship the seller all my website stats — whether or not or not I get accredited, they get an electronic mail immediately that lays the whole lot out.

Now, if I’ve sufficient site visitors the place I really feel assured, a part of that electronic mail is, “Hey, let’s get on the cellphone, let’s have a dialog.”

Then, allow them to discuss concerning the merchandise, make them really feel heat and fuzzy, after which discuss what I carry to the desk.

On the finish of the dialog, you say, “Hey, is that this one of the best you’re keen to supply? How can I get a better fee?”

Simply get on the cellphone and discuss to someone on the firm. You may not even find yourself speaking about affiliate commissions. Simply the opposite day, I ended up having a dialog with a producer about fishing.

In case you take the time to get to know someone personally, they’re more likely to need to work with you, they usually typically have a whole lot of wiggle room on percentages.

Let’s say a base fee begins at 10%. I assure you they will go as much as 25% or larger should you make it worthwhile for them and should you preserve it actual…

Be good, be likable, and construct a relationship.

Many individuals are uncomfortable with this course of, however that’s how I’ve been in a position to acquire a lot larger commissions.

Monetization and How to Get off Amazon

Matt: What’s the minimal fee charge you discover acceptable to maneuver off Amazon? Amazon has superb conversion charges, however clearly, cash talks…

Julie: I all the time say 10%, and that’s contingent on it not being one other on-line mall…

Let’s faux for a second that Dwelling Depot or eBay or no matter gives greater than fractionally larger commissions than Amazon…

Platforms aside from Amazon that aren’t direct producer websites don’t convert in addition to Amazon.

Producer websites usually exist to promote a singular product. They’ve a ravishing touchdown web page, and so forth.

With Amazon — you may have Amazon addicts, they usually convert effectively — however different on-line malls don’t have that.

So when linking on to producers versus different malls, I might say 10% is the minimal fee charge.

Matt: I need to echo what you mentioned. I exploit 10% as a place to begin, and that may go up or down relying on the touchdown web page’s magnificence.

If it’s horrid, if it appears like a type of old-school squeeze pages and simply screams rip-off, you’re going to have to provide me 30 or 40% — and it’s only a check, proper?

Julie: And even nonetheless, if it doesn’t convert, 50%, 70%, no matter — it doesn’t matter, it’s nonetheless $0.

Matt: For certain. I’m assuming you’re testing as effectively? I imply, simply since you transfer off Amazon and you discover this 10% deal doesn’t imply it’s going to transform effectively.

So, how do you construction these sorts of exams?

Do you employ the brand new supplier for a month after which simply see which one made essentially the most cash?

Julie: Principally, yeah…

I truly use a shorter testing interval — it’s a few weeks.

What I do is take my highest performing web page — it will get essentially the most site visitors, so I can collect essentially the most knowledge in a brief period of time — then I place this new supplier both primary or quantity two, and simply watch it like a hawk.

I see what number of clicks it’s getting and if it has any conversions. Truthfully, my common conversion charge is between 1 and a pair of% proper now, so I’m in search of at the very least that.

If I begin making good cash off it, I’ll simply change from Amazon throughout the board, however I begin with one, perhaps two pages.

Matt: That is sensible. Do you ever do any A/B testing to check out Amazon versus one other provider, or are they all the time serial exams? You simply substitute after which check after which change again if the efficiency isn’t there?

Julie: I simply do alternative exams as a result of I’m attempting to get away from Amazon as a lot as doable proper now. Even when Amazon is best, I don’t belief them anymore. So, there’s no sense in cut up testing if I need to do away with them anyway.

Matt: I’m not going to disagree with that. We’ve been preaching towards Amazon in The Affiliate Lab for the reason that starting. In reality, the third lesson in The Affiliate Lab is why we don’t like having Amazon!

Julie: Don’t you may have a narrative the place you misplaced like $90,000 or one thing loopy like that?

Matt: No, it was $150okay. They nonetheless have that.

Let’s discuss site visitors diversification. Do you get all of your site visitors from natural search? Do you fiddle with any PPC or electronic mail advertising and marketing?

Julie: Natural is what I do know… Once I was on the company, I dabbled in paid adverts. And after I say dabble, I imply, I might look over someone else’s shoulder after I went to get espresso.

It’s not one thing that I’ve coaching in. It’s not one thing I’m tremendous assured about.

To be trustworthy, with a whole lot of affiliate offers, except you may have an excellent, tremendous excessive fee charge to promote on Google particularly, it’s fairly low margins.

Now with Fb, if I’ve a extremely excessive fee product, I’ll perform a little little bit of promoting on Fb, however that’s it.

Matt: How about electronic mail funnels — like providing a lead magnet, getting them in an automatic collection, after which build up at the very least a 10,000 individual checklist. Then anytime you launch a brand new publish you’re driving 10,000 folks again to that publish who may convert.

Do you may have expertise with that?

Julie: I see a ton of worth there as a result of, one, it’s site visitors you may management, and, two, it’s site visitors that ‘s infinitely rising so long as your checklist is top quality.

I’m nonetheless studying, nonetheless a child there. I believe it’s viable, so I’m trying into it now.

Matt: Cool. So nothing is holding you again from electronic mail advertising and marketing — it’s only a work in progress.

Plainly you’re not scared to strive new issues, you want challenges — and as you mentioned, you prefer to be uncomfortable — which is an indication of development, for certain.


Scaling seo team

Talking of development, what’s your plan for scaling your portfolio?

Do you need to get into extra niches? What number of websites do you may have now, and the place do you need to be sooner or later?

Julie: Proper now, I’ve six or seven websites, so it’s comparatively small.

I’ve mentioned from the start that… Look, I’m not going to say I don’t love cash, however cash will not be my important motivation — it’s time.

I need to have a portfolio that I can put 4 or 5 hours a day into. I don’t care what work I’m doing, however that’s what number of hours I need to work per day.

So whether or not I’m scaling or taking a step again so as to reinvest cash to scale back my operational involvement, I’m open to that…

However I don’t need to develop and work extra only for the sake of creating much more cash, as a result of I’m doing fairly good proper now.

Matt: That’s fascinating. So, in case your major motivation is time, it looks as if you’re extra considering scaling your staff and phasing your self out of operations moderately than scaling your portfolio.

Julie: Precisely, sure. If I can do 4 hours of labor a day the place I’m not doing any search engine marketing and I’m simply managing a staff, nice. That’s completely on my radar. And if I can earn more money doing that, wonderful.

I do know I’m not going to take a seat right here and construct a ton extra websites with simply myself on the helm. So, if I need to develop, I’m rising with folks — not essentially simply extra websites.

Matt: Let’s say you’re deciding to construct a brand new website. Let’s say you flip a superb one, you may have some free time, and also you need to construct a brand new one…

Would you go for a distinct segment website, authority website, or go for one of many hardcore niches like CBD, payday loans, or on line casino. What’s that trying like for you?

Julie: I prefer to steer clear of your cash, your life (YMYL) niches, as a result of it’s hyper-competitive and it takes much more cash to have the ability to compete there.

And likewise, not that I’ve something towards anyone that does it, but when I’m not an professional on one thing monetary or health-related, simply from an moral standpoint, I don’t need to contact it.

I don’t need to suggest merchandise that I don’t personally imagine in.

So except I develop into an precise professional at one thing in YMYL,  I might moderately simply keep in “safer” niches.

Does that reply your query?

Matt: That works for me! Any regrets transferring to 99.9% affiliate?

Julie: As I discussed, I work 4 hours a day now. So, I went from working 40 hours per week to 20, 25 perhaps.

No regrets. I’m a lot happier. My work/life steadiness is nice. I’m making more cash. I’ve extra time. I’m pleased with myself.

Everyone suspects I promote medicine or one thing, I’m certain. At the least all of my household thinks so!

However no regrets, that is one of the best choice I’ve ever made.

seo success illustrations

Matt: That’s superior to listen to!

Do you may have any recommendation for folks in an identical place to once you had been again on the company and even newbie SEOs which might be simply deciding between affiliate or drop transport or staying at a nine-to-five?

What recommendation do you may have for folks like that?

Julie: In case you’re good at search engine marketing, do it!

However, should you assume affiliate is a few sort of get-rich-quick scheme that doesn’t require any time or any cash — you’re going to waste a whole lot of each should you attempt to pursue this.

You’ll want to know entering into online marketing, that it’s going to take cash to get began, it’ll take a whole lot of time, and it’s a must to be comparatively good at search engine marketing.

In case you’re simply getting began with affiliate search engine marketing — nice, as a result of you may be taught, however don’t count on to totally succeed.

Maintain your expectations in test, and don’t be afraid to fail — regardless that I’m afraid to fail, we’re all afraid to fail — don’t be fearful of failure.

Perhaps I’m preaching to the choir right here, however you’re in all probability going to fail in your first one or two websites, I assure you that.

Matt, you may have a few failures below your belt as effectively…

Folks solely see success on-line. They don’t see any of the failures. So, simply preserve chugging alongside.

Matt: How would you suggest getting began? Since you had a superb expertise of beginning off in an company… Would you suggest folks get their training at an company and go away them excessive and dry?

I’m simply kidding!

Julie: I’d say that you probably have a possibility to get what I known as “paid education” in direction of the tip of my time on the company — go for it! I realized a lot, and perhaps you’ll find yourself loving it.

There’s no higher technique to be taught than to do, and I do know you’re half-joking together with your query however in all honesty, being an company provides you a handful of shoppers to be taught with. So, yeah, I might suggest it.

Matt: Obtained it.

Alright, so earlier than we wrap this up — thanks for this superior interview.

I’m certain folks realized a whole lot of issues — not solely about your journey however your course of, the way you rank web sites, what you take note of, and the way you do issues.

I’m excited to announce that you just’ll be making extra appearances on this YouTube channel and arising with a collection of talks and discussions.

Do you need to discuss a little bit bit extra about what we are able to count on?

Julie: As we’ve been discussing this complete time. I come from a local SEO company background, and now I do solely do affiliate.

So, I’ve a really big selection of recommendation to carry to the desk. And never solely about search engine marketing, however going again to having 80 shoppers directly…

A lot of what goes into success is group and figuring out the place to dedicate your time to make more cash.

So I’ll be speaking about all that’s concerned with that, in addition to stuff like conversion rate optimization — how to make more cash with the identical quantity of site visitors you have already got.

I’m going to be bringing all my information and expertise to the desk — I’m excited!

Matt: I’m excited! And also you guys watching must be excited too!

Julie, Thanks a lot on your time. It’s been eye-opening.

You’re superior and congrats on all of your success.

Julie: See you once more on this channel quickly!


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